Angie McKaig - E-Business Consultant and Entrepreneur
let's talk about women, you and I2004.07.10
This Metafilter thread is just the latest in a seemingly long series of online discussions about "where are the women in web design?". And you know, I try to stay out of this fray as much as possible because really, though I identify as feminist and feel a great deal of sympathy towards some feminist issues, I hate this particular argument and it makes me wince every time I read something about it. Like a car wreck that I just have to look at even though I know it will disturb me and gross me out.
(And before I devolve into my personal opinions on the matter, it behooves us to note that not only are they asking this question about women in web design but, as a quick Google search shows us, about women in cycling and in the "new Iraq" and in the corner office and scientific research and venture capital and... you get the idea.)
I hate this question because it makes my gender an issue, and I for one don't believe it is. I don't want to be judged based on the body I happened to be born with, I want to be based on my writing and the quality of my work and my design and my business skills and sure, even my opinions, but not whether I wake up in the morning and slide on jockey shorts or a bra. Moreover, I believe for the most part that is how I am judged, at least online.
This wee blog is a perfect example of the tenet: If you do good things, and do a bit of self-promotion (and I do mean just a bit, submitting to pinging services and getting listed in a few directories), people will eventually notice and word will spread. Today, while I'm far from an "A" lister, I get lots of visitors, people are kind enough to include me in a list of good designers, Fast Company (wow!) reads me, and most of all I get comments and emails from many, many people whose work I've respected for years.
Am I a design/web/tech supastar? Nope. But you know what? That's fair. I'll tell you why.
You hear names like Andrei Herasimchuk, Cameron Moll, Andy Budd, Dan Cederholm, D. Keith Robinson, Jon Hicks, Douglas Bowman (and all the others out there I've neglected to mention) because they do good stuff, dammit. They crank out oodles of content, they put a lot of time and thought into their posts, and they promote the heck out of themselves. They deserve to be where they are, in my opinion, and that has nothing to do with the fact that the list above all wear jockey shorts. I'm similarly familiar with names like Heather Champ and Molly Holzschlag and Meg Hourihan. These women are also putting out good things and promoting themselves. Yes, there are fewer of them. But do I really believe it's because we as women are somehow oppressed?
I'm sorry, I just don't.
If anything, I believe the web is a great equalizer. Hell, you don't even have to tell people your name to build a popular, successful (even moneymaking) web site. So how can gender be an issue? In some businesses, yes, women don't always get a fair shake... although I've always been of the opinion that if you aren't getting that fair shake, move on to somewhere you can. Start your own business, even, and then you know your boss won't be a misogynist. But no one person owns or manages the web, and no one can buy their way in to popularity or respect. Here, it's earned.
If I wanted the kind of recognition and mention that the people on the list above enjoy, I have absolutely no doubt that I could do it. I could write better, more often, and take the time to craft the kind of content that people respond to and crave. I could work harder at promoting myself, to help make people aware of my existence. And the great thing is, every single person on the web has this chance, regardless of age or gender.
The reason I hate these kinds of discussions is that I feel it weakens all women. I really do. It brings our gender into focus, when I'd really rather people focus on what I have to say, and what I do. And, to me, that's the definition of feminist.
Believe in yourself, work on your craft, go after what you want, do good things. Yes, I know, sounds very Pollyanna. But I believe it's the only formula that works.
And that's just the way I see it.
"Believe in yourself, work on your craft, go after what you want, do good things."
I loved this summary, because as I was reading your post, I was thinking about what I like about (what little I know about) you and basically, your blog. And I was thinking about myself and my own issues around fame, reputation, personal brand, comparisons to others, etc. in my own field. There are always others that are more well-known, well-liked, well-hired, well-published, etc. and sometimes those are the folks that do exactly what it takes to get their name into the right places. But, thinking about myself, I just keep on doing my thing and enjoying every time I feel like it pays off, because it paid off in a surprising way, because after all, I was just doing what I wanted to do.
I get that same vibe overwhelmingly from reading you, and it's very comforting and charming. I'm not a web designer, but your take on your own business, on design, on technology, on the web, it makes for a great "voice" that is obviously the natural product of who you are.
So, that last phrase in your post arrived at my eyes while my brain was constructing that exact sentinment.
I LOVE when that happens!
I look at the web as a gender neutral environment.
The people you mentioned-- both male and female-- are producing work that I admire and aspire to. I never really consider their gender, their name, their background or their "status".
I look at someone's site/work/content and base my opinion of them on whether their site is: a.) relevant to my interest, b.) entertaining, or c.) promotes community.
A strata that has emerged in the blogosphere, as well as the design community. But I've always thought that the level attained within that strata was based on talent/persistence, and had nothing to do with gender.
Good call on the close of this post:
"...Believe in yourself, work on your craft..." I too read it and like Steve in the comment above I was "constructing that exact sentiment".
Thanks to everyone for their comments!
Eris, I really hope you don't think that this was a personal attack, because it wasn't. To be honest, your comment forced me to go back to MeFi to find out who started the thread, because I don't pay attention to *who* does the saying as I do *what* is being discussed (though that's probably obvious from my post above...smile).
The web is not just the great equalizer, it's the embodiment (at least for those of us lucky enough to be living in free societies) of the American concept of free speech. Which means I absolutely defer to your right to say something, point out an inequality where you feel one exists, lead or participate in an open exchange of ideas or opinions. I don't agree with them, but I don't have to.
You asked: "Did you even notice that all of the female competitors were matched up against each other."
Actually, I didn't until it was pointed out. Nor did it bother me when it did - it's Andrei's post, Andrei's blog, and Andrei can do what he likes with it. But then, while I enjoyed GvB, I didn't take it incredibly seriously either. Nor do I think that Andrei intended me to. The GvB posts are very tongue-in-cheek, slightly fixed (*laughs* - we bloggers always seem to win, and that seems a bit inequal as well) but basically there to prove a single point - that gurus, in general, could do a lot more to "walk the talk" of design.
For me, it stems from confidence. I don't need the public kudos, a book deal or the appropriate matchups in GvB (or elsewhere) to tell me I'm good at what I do, and appreciated for it. My paycheque, the people I work with, and even the occasional angiemckaig.com visitor email all tell me that without needing to prove myself in this online arena.
Do I think you should let it happen if such an "inequality" happens again? Well, I'm far from the one to tell you what to do. :)
If it's something you feel this strongly about, then you should. If you were to ask me my preference personally, I'd say I probably hope you don't, for reasons explained above.
*In general*, I find it difficult to see women spending so much time discussing this issue. Do I believe misogyny exists in the world? Absolutely. I really *don't* think it's as much of an issue online as in the rest of the world. Are there misogynists online? Oh, undoubtedly, since the web is made up of those same people from "the real world".
But I'm not here to fight a war for feminine rights. I'm just here to do my job, and to share what I know with people who can either choose to appreciate it or move on. ;)
Sorry I had to fill in with a useless comment, but I kept reading the "GvB" as Girl vs. Boys instead of Gurus vs. Bloggers.
Oh the irony! Back to my rum.
Adding another useless comment:
Thank you Angie for saying what i've been trying to say ever since this issue came up recently.
I don't have as much time as most to put a lot of effort into my explanations, as i'm usually doing 10 things at once - so thank you again.
I respect you a lot for you comment and i'm glad that you believe gender isn't an issue - just like me. However, the minority will ruin it (on both sides) just like in "real life".
I've been reading your blog for a while, just never had a reason to post.
and..
If only everybody lived by that last paragraph in your post. It's how i've lived my life so far and I strongly believe in it.
Angie, I also agree the web is an equalizing environment. If you've got something good to say, then most people will sit up and listen--and not even know or care about your gender, race, age, etc. And I mostly agree with the main point of this entry, which is summarized very nicely in your last paragraph. I agree with that very much!
However, I disagree that gender isn't an issue as Robert puts it, and I disagree that discussion is harming women's cause.
Dissenting voices shouldn't necessarily be ignored. If even a few people take issue, that doesn't necessarily mean that the issue doesn't exist or should be dismissed--especially when many people have personal accounts where these issues have bit them in the ass. Because you haven't personally experienced or observed it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist in other sectors.
I, personally, have never really had to deal with gender or racial bias so I'm happy as a clam being a young ethnic female minority. Heck, I make more money and have more experience than a lot of white males my age that I know. Same goes for some of my best female friends, who are working to be electrical engineers and computer programmers.
With the kind of dismissive thinking that I think may be going on, since I am successful and happy, does that mean I should also pretend that others who are ethnic or female minorities that are unhappy or are having difficulty in their situations "aren't an issue"? People who think they're immune to falling into bad circumstance based either on gender or ethnicity are foolish.
Discussion helps breed curiousity, and thus, education and understanding. That's what I believe. So even though I have yet to have a door slammed to my face because of either my gender or ethnicity, that doesn't mean I'm not aware it could happen (through my own fault or not), and I encourage anybody and anything that tries to educate people enough to prevent that from happening.
Angie, I've been thinking along the same lines as I follow some of these discussions, but I haven't yet found a way to put it in words.
"The reason I hate these kinds of discussions is that I feel it weakens all women. I really do. It brings our gender into focus, when I'd really rather people focus on what I have to say, and what I do..."
I agree.And I don't consider my self a feminist.
I too think that when we bring gender into it as far as women are concerned it rather weakens us. It should not matter about gender, it should be about what you do and say regardless. In most cases it is. I was asking the same question on my blog in relation to the Blogher conference wondering at the fact that we use the term "women bloggers" as opposed to just "bloggers". Maybe that's different and I've missed the point of it. I believe there are some who will always want to make it about gender. But as you say, the web is a great equalizer - anyone can become successful doing what they do if they want to.
"Believe in yourself, work on your craft, go after what you want, do good things. Yes, I know, sounds very Pollyanna. But I believe it's the only formula that works".
That's my approach to life too. However I do bear in mind that, particularly with regards to ethnicity there are some who will try and stop you doing what you want to do and will slam doors in you face - if they see it. That has never stopped me, hence I am continually successful. But like a previous poster I am aware of these issues; they should not be dismissed and if there is an opportunity to help someone on their way (and that includes educating others) I will, because I would hope someone would do the same if were me.
Good article by the way.
As the creator of that mefi thread, I can't help but feel that you are talking to me in your post. Which stings a bit because it makes me wonder if anything I've said has actually gotten through or if people are just hearing what they think I've been saying.
Are you upset, as a woman, that I started that thread, commented about this issue in various blogs and brought up the issue at all?
You mentioned Andrei as being "kind enough to include you" in the B -vs- G, round 2. Were you comfortable being segregated in that competition? Did you even notice that all of the female competitors were matched up against each other. Not one women went against one man. But you feel that your talents and contributions are of equal (or better) level than that of other men.
If the web is such a great equalizer, gender shouldn't have played into who you went against in that contest.
Now, Andrei's already discussed this in a very commendably open way. I understand his perspective and he understands mine. But are you saying that I shouldn't have mentioned this segregation at all? That when round 3 came up, I should be content to just let the same thing happen again?
I do not believe that talking about gender or race belittles the worth of the people discussing it. Over the course of this discussion I have done my best to explain my opinions in a manner that got a rational point across.
I would like to believe that my words have done good.
I would also like to believe that I've done a good job of emphasizing (through words and actions) the fact that I do not see my gender as my hurdle or my excuse.
But, your post makes me wonder if I've been less articulate than I thought.